Gwendolyn's Interview Transcript

Transcript of Jasmine Jordan’s interview with Gwendolyn Jordan

J: Hello Gwendolyn Jordan, do I have permission to oral record this interview?

G: Hi, Yes.

J: Where were you born?

G: Charleston, South Carolina. Downtown Charleston. On Bay Street and Main Street.

J: How long did you live at that address?

G:I lived in Charleston most of my life except time my husband was in the military. We lived in Arizona, we lived in Alabama at Tuskegee institute, they had apartments there. When I went into the military I lived in Kentucky for a while. But mostly grew up in Charleston, when I came back.

J: What elementary, middle, and high school did you attend.

G:  I went to Columbus Street School on Columbus Street in Charleston, I went to ICs, a catholic school, then I went to Henry P. Archer School, it’s a historical school now, downtown. And then I went to Sanders Clyde Elementary then the last school I went to was Burke for High School and I graduated from there.

J: When did you graduate?

G: I graduated in 1968.

How do you feel like the conditions of your school supplies or books?

G: They were definitely past down, the white schools would get the newest books and pass down the old books to the black schools. The black schools did not have air conditioning or fans during the summer months, so we just sweated. . When I was 14 I sent me to River High School, which was a white school. I went there to see the difference. They had new books and big jumbo fans and air conditioning, but we didn’t have that the blacks school. But, yes it was totally different.

How was your experience at Rivers High school?

G: At Rivers High, some of the white teachers were nice but majority of them were very racist. If you scored high on a test, you would get a different score on your report card. You couldn’t argue or point your facts and if you showed your paper, they would make excuses. Then we had a student body, that would report thing to the principal saying you did this and that, so we had a lot of lying where the white kids would lie on the black kids and say the black kids was cheating. Then i had one white teacher that stood up for me and said i actually made good grades. They had students make decision instead of a real teacher, but they had to dismantle that. But it was real racist as far as grades and ignoring you wouldn't answer your questions

J: Where did the white students sit in class with the blacks?

G: There wasnt alot of black kids that went their. so I sat next to white kids. Some of the teachers would group them and let sit together. But one teacher was fair.

J: Did you walk to rivers High school or did you ride the bus?

G: I walked because it was around the corner from my house on Romney Street.

J: Were there any events that very memorable or bad experience with the white classmates. I think they were afraid to talk. You said hi they would mumble hi. So I didnt really hang with anyone, so that was it. They actually ignore you, teachers did to, at the time.

I stayed for one year, I told my mom I wanted to leave. The unfairness of them reporting the student cheating, when we actually made good grades, we constantly went in front of the white student board,  The white kids would say we we would say it wasn’t true, and when we asked what student told them that, they said it was anonymous, and that’s a form of harassing the black kids.. But after a year I told my mom i wanted to go back to burke high school, I went back to the school. Some left and some stayed but i don’t know how it affected them mentally.

J: And if you could do it again, would you go back to Rivers High School?

G: I would, I’m older now, I’m more mature. I would go and  speak out more, but what can you say back. We maybe the stronger group back then because our parents weren’t strong enough, because they were afraid of losing their jobs; therefore, the kids had to takeover the Civil Rights movement, but it was young kids, 12, 13, 14, 15 we were the ones that went to picketing lines, we didn’t  have to go, we wanted to, because we didn't have to worry about losing a job, if they saw parents out there, they could lose their jobs. So teenagers had to fight. The 60’s were a big rebellion with the white and black kids. As we got older we were saying weren’t not standing on the back of the bus, what other people took before we were not gonna take it.

J: Speaking of rebellion can you talk about the March of Washington. How old were you?

G: I was 13 year old, I was i 8th grade. I had just turned 14 I had a birthday. I'm not sure who organized it, it may have been Martin Luther King. But we had to pay our own way. So what we did all the kids went door to door to ask people for donation to go to the march of washington. Black people and white people donate. I knocked on one black man that looked white, door and I started to leave and he said young lady come here, here’s some money, Who ever collected money went to the march on washington. But everyone knew about it they expected the kids to come.  And we rode a train called the, “Freedom Train” it came from Miami Florida. This train was apart of the Amtrak train system, and it was reserve only for the March of Washington participants. It was called FT and it took us all the way to D.C. It was so many people. I never seen that many people in my life all over, and we had to walk slow with signs. It was extremely hot that day and I remember passing out. They had to fan me. I had water but i must have been dehydrated. It was an experience, the march of washington.

J: How long did y’all stay there?

G: We stay for one day, we got back on the train. We didn’t have to stay on a hotel. They picked us up that night before the march  and we go to D.C around 7 something that morning. And they had trains to take us to listen to to other people. And then the took us back. Then we came back that same day.  

J: Where you afraid of  what would happen because of what happened in Birmingham and alabama, since they were beaten up?

G:No not actually, South Carolina, well at least not Charleston, was not as racist, we couldn't eat at the lunch counters, but it wasn't like getting beat like north carolina and alabama. Now the would take us to jail, by the “patty wagon” a police truck, they would put everyone in the patty wagon and they would put everyone in the cell, and we would sing freedom songs and they would tell us so shut up and we would still sing. But they had to let us out because we were underage.  

G: The Hospital Strike, I had friends that worked at Medical University Hospital, they would pay them 50 cents to a dollar and they were nurses aides and they couldn’t survive of that. The lady that lead the strike was a LPN, and they wouldn’t give her, a licenses, they didn't want to pay her for that, so she lead a strike, all the black nurses, nurses aid, the people that work in the kitchen,  everybody they all went on strike, and didn’t go back to work; therefore, and the patient suffered, Medical U lost a lot of money. They were angry and they called the police. They were on the street, i came home that weekend. And after Medical U lost money, they suffered somewhat, they decided to give the workers a raise. That's why it was so hard for black people to make it because they didnt have alot of money.

J: What was the outcome of this strike.

G: Good, Medical U agreed. The outcome was good because they meet with the Pastors.The state took over and they made changes, gave raises, and put blacks in higher positions. The strike was very good. It would have never been a change if it wasn't for the strikes and civil rights movement.

J: When the Orangeburg massacre happen, did you know anyone that was there?

G: “My cousin, Alonzo Hines, he went to South carolina State, he was outside when the police shot and killed those kids. I know people that knew the kids that died and they talked about how smart they were.

J: What did you cousin say about this experience?

G:“He said it was something at night, the police just shot into the crowd, they used real bullets when the shot in the crowd and the bullets could hit anyone. It was real horrifying and sad. They got away with it. The mayor of Orangeburg and governor upheld the police officers that did that. The national guard said they were told to shoot. I think by the time we got to 12 and 13 really it was the children questioning their parents asking them how can you just sit there and take that, but what could our parents say, they were afraid of losing their jobs. So thats why, when you look at pictures you see young kids because that was the crowd saying we werent gonna take it anymore.

J: Any final words or anything like that?

G: Final words are If it were not for the kids, Like i said, I emphasizes that alot, that were 12, 13, 14, that had the strength to fight something like this off, we had black and white water fountains, and the kids saying im gonna drink out this water fountain, or I’m going to use this bathroom, and that's where the defiance came, I think those kids doing the time was the strength of the Civil Rights Movement. We didn't have to be persuade from the adults because we were already defiant and ready for change. That about it i can  all I can remember so far, except the cruelty of going to those schools, and you never knew who threw it, you know, but then i realize those kids were taught to ignore them,

J: Well thank you again, Mrs. Jordan

G: Thank you.