Interview with Audra Amyx

Interview with Audra Amyx

Johnny Baker as pastor of Abundant Life

Travis Amyx

Travis Amyx and Audra Amyx

12 November 2019

Travis Amyx and Audra Amyx

Mp3

English

Oral Interview

Travis Amyx

Audra Amyx

Her home

Audra Amyx Interview
TA This is Travis Amyx and I am here today with Audra Amyx on the eleventh of November two thousand and nineteen. This is a..an interview for the Local History Matters Project … at Clemson University for their library special collections and archives. How are you doing today?

AA I am good, you?

TA I'm doing fine.

AA Good.

TA When did you first become a member of Abundant Life?

AA Probably ... nineteen ninety nine, two thousand

TA That's good. um What..what impacted your reasoning for wanting to be a member of that church?

AA Well I'll tell you, Pastor Bragg was the pastor there, and and it was good, and the music was good but the reason we kept coming back is because there was another pastor, Pastor Wilton Bolding, and he was so nice and so genuine and friendly that it made people feel welcome. The second time we went back he came up to me, he remembered our names, he remembered where we were from, he remembered where we worked, and it made you feel like he really cared. So you felt at home there because of Wilton Bolding and that's why we came back.

TA Now you worked at the church for many years. Um, when you originally first started working there what what was your job?

AA My paid job?

TA Yea such as like the daycare or..

AA Yes, my first paying job there was at the daycare, at the daycare
van driver for field trips for Elaine Fetter. She hired me to do that and then when she retired, Pastor Baker then hired me to be her replacement as daycare director.

TA Do you have any clue when that was?

AA … I really don't know the exact date.

TA That's fine.

AA Probably at least twenty-two or twenty-three years ago.

TA When did you take over doing uh .. children's church and ..?

AA That came several years after I was already the day care director and I had helped out um in the office some. We had a girl there, she was on maternity leave, and so I kind of got my hands wet in a lot of different ministries. So, there was a lady that was doing the children's ministry when she decided to give it up, it was kind of a natural fit for the person who did the daycare to also do the children’s church.

TA That makes sense. Did you ever feel like … um, let me figure out how I want to question this. As as a leader of the church did you ever feel like you were impacting the lives of the children during like Y2K or nine eleven, the recession, do you ever feel like you were possibly like a positive influence on their lives during a period that they probably didn't realize was happening?

AA I always tried to teach the kids and it didn't matter if it was day care, if it was kids church, to not be afraid. I didn't want them to have a spirit of fear so I always taught against that. I wanted them to be strong I wanted them to know that it was gonna be okay. Community, family, we were all going to be there to get through whatever it was together.

TA So I'm assuming you've you've always felt like or you happen to always be led to influence children's lives?

AA It just kinda happened that way. I mean, I don't know if it was something that I have always felt like I was supposed to do but I always ended up in that area. And I think when I was a kid the school I went to and the people that would, they controled us with fear so it became a personal thing for me to not allow people to be afraid because they don't have to be.

TA What do you remember of … Pastor Baker becoming the senior pastor of Abundant Life?

AA So it wasn't too long after we started there, like very very quickly that Pastor Bragg died and it so happened that Pastor Baker was a special speaker there, and most everybody knew him, but I didn't know him. He was gone when we got there. So for everybody else is kind of a natural fit for him to come back in and become the pastor so I just kind of remember it. You know, being kind of smooth because I really was just volunteering in kids church there and I don't even think I was on staff when he first came. In fact, I remember that he was the pastor there for several months and I was going into regular service one Sunday and he introduced himself to me like it was my first Sunday there and it was kind of funny because I felt like I had been there longer than him.

TA So he was the pastor at Abundant Life from ninety nine to two thousand seventeen … which is kind of similar to your period at the church. What kind of influence was his presence in your decision to stay there, and then also to leave? Or did he have like a … even if you didn't have it that's fine. but I mean there's always reasoning so I was just curious.
AA So Pastor Bakers the kind of person that … if he … if you're in a job position and he likes you there that's where you are and so you know he instilled a lot of good values about pressing through when times are tough. To keep on finding another way and I guess over the years you … you know what is expected of you and you kinda do it. Then you know not only was I over the kid’s church but he would let me have other opportunities to serve in different areas you know ... like if it was tithing, or when we would have dramas, or we would have. So we started over time becoming like a family. And so you become faithful to your family, you know, you want them to succeed and you want and you wanted do well. And so I guess that’s how I became connected to him in the church because over time you know you press through the problems and then you feel like it's home. So one thing would come up and we’d press through and then we would have good times of the holidays and we would have fun doing the dramas together, the whole church and. I guess that's what connected us.

TA Do you have any specific times that you felt were troubling that you had to press through, that you guys press through together?

AA Well yeah, I mean you know nine one one was a big thing. You know people are afraid and they're fearful and it's funny how they’ll start clinging to the church but then they give less. You know there were many times where you know funds would be short and you know I remember three or four times the staff as a whole we ought to cut in pay just to keep the church going. The church still had a lot of people, but in their nervousness, and scaredness, they were holding onto their funds because they didn't know what was coming so I think it made them fearful so we would you know kind of bond together as a group because we were all taking a hit that way and. Um I remember … I remember we had a big Spanish influence and you know we have a lot of people leave because there was a Spanish community there and they had never dealt with and had to kind of consider their own inadequacies and how they felt about other races and rather than do that, and learn, and grow, it was easier for them to go somewhere else and that's what they did.

TA As a member of the church what did you see or witness, like Pastor Baker do to adapt those changes, such as the influxes because there's an influx of Hispanic people, Spanish speaking people, and then there's a drop in English speaking people. What did he do to adapt the church to these changes, like was there anything specific that had to be done or was it just accept it and or move on?

AA No at first, we were trying to be together and they would have um like headphones with interpretation. But the Spanish church grew at an alar.., I mean an amazing rate. They were so big so then they started having separate services or they would try to have a service in another area so that they didn't have to didn't do the interpretation thing and they could just have a normal service as well. So that was one way we tried and then if that didn't work and one church was needing to change for the other then we would change. Like sometimes you know the Spanish church would drop off so they might join us then or they might have service in the sanctuary right after we … we would leave. Or you know them, the Hispanic church, they were very tight. They they would do so every single night at the church, they were each other's family. A lot of them have families in other countries and so a lot of them were here alone. So, they bonded to their church family much much stronger bond than you know Americans did. They had outside interests, and jobs, and work, and and although they were growing, and they had actually probably the same size church as we did their giving was a lot less than the American. But the thing is they were still giving the same percentage, but they made so much less, you know I, does that make sense so like their ten … you say ten percent. They they had way more givers than the American church but at the same time the English speaking would have fewer givers and bring in way more money because that's how it was I mean they just didn't make the same wages, fair or or not, it was just a reality.

TA So the finances are one thing but could you, in many ways you could think of them spending so much time at the church as also like giving their time to the church.

AA Absolutely.

TA So that's another way of I guess tithing and giving ten percent. They are giving more than ten percent … percent of their time.

AA Which surprisingly is good, is what you strive for, you know that community and the. But it offended so many people. Like … I can't explain why but the English church was … the Spanish was always there always messing stuff up and you know what they were there, and things did happen and they did break things and that. They didn't break any more than the English, but they were also the ones there on church work day. They were also the ones there cleaning church … So that's just how it was, if you want to talk about community then you should go to a Hispanic church.

TA Do you think that the presence of Hispanics impacted at the church as far as financially and attendance more so than major world crisis? Like nine eleven, do you feel like that impact … had more of an impact on the community of the church than just the huge … the big picture things such as nine eleven and the Y2K, those are out of order, but do you feel like … do you feel like race played … had more of an effect on people than outside things.

AA Yes, without a doubt.

TA What about when they had the bus program to pick up most … it was mostly African American children that lived in lower income housing? Do you feel like that impacted anybody's influence at the church? I know, I mean, they were children but..

AA Yeah, they were children and and I think people complained about that but I don't think that caused anybody to want to leave because they could control them because they were children. They could say you can't come if you don't behave. It was troubling when they, a child, would misbehave and there wasn't a parent to go get but that was a short-lived thing. So … so I felt like they ... I think people felt like they had control over that. They couldn't control the growth rate of our, the Hispanic church, our Hispanic church. And so the unknown … and then you know I would call it racism, I would called prejudiced um.. although they would not like me calling them that. It is what it is. Because they … there was … it was supposed to be our church. We had a Spanish speaking and an English speaking, it was our church. But if you spoke to a lot of people that were in the English speaking then it was their church and they allowed the Hispanics to use the church. And I don't think no matter no matter how you tried to tell the Spanish church it was their church too. They never felt like it was truly their church and I'm not saying that they did everything right. Because they didn't either, but it was probably I would say more so on the English side.

TA How do you feel this impacted like Pastor Baker as a leader? What did he have to do differently compared to when I was just English to adapting both cultures?

AA Well he had to stay strong in the midst of it all because he could not turn his back. On any group, he … but and I and I … there were times that I remember people saying to him, and maybe even feeling like it from time to time, that he loved the Spanish people more but I don't think it was that he loved them more but they needed him more so they got more of his attention. It's like anything else the squeaky wheel gets the oil and they needed him. They needed his help not only in church and religious things, but even in life and he spent a lot of time with … with that church and … and so I guess maybe that maybe even there was some jealousy from the English speaking church because they wanted that time and attention but I mean church is about reaching out, not just taking care of yourself. And so, they were like the fat babies who just wanted to keep getting fed instead of instead of reaching out. Thats … that was how I viewed it
TA When you were ... you know you worked there you were there day in and day out, so you were able to witness…

AA I do understand some of the things they would go through, it's not that I don't but I also feel like some of the things could just been dealt with instead of blaming a race. Why don't we just blame it on you know a people thing. I remember one thing was like the drums were always getting broken. Okay so just ask them to not play the drums so hard you know, “Those those those Spanish people and their loud music” and now it just seems so silly to me. They just wanted another X in the Spanish churches column you know. Right and just fix it.

TA I know that you were mostly in children’s church but do you remember anything having to be changed as far as pastor’s topics and his sermons, with the ones that you were able to hear or do … you might not remember, which is fine.

AA Yeah, I didn’t hear a whole whole lot. I mean think I used to be jealous of the people that got to go to church every Sunday and I didn’t get to. So, um …You know I think for the most part he stayed the course I mean you know if … it was like anything else. Times change maybe your sermons change. I don't he ever preached the same thing. I don't feel like all the time he um … one of his big things is though about finding your
calling and he would preach that a lot. Like find your … what god wants you to do and and get try to get people to volunteer and to help and to do those things. That was a big a big sermon for him. And that’s you know that's what a pastor does. Motivate and try to get people to help.
TA How effective do you think that was?

AA I think it's effective at first. I think it was very effective on … in the Hispanic community. I think after a while the the English people were maybe looking for a reason to complain, or to leave and they want to get lost in bigger churches, so they don't have to volunteer and not feel the guilt. You know we weren't a great big church, we had a great big property, but we were never a great big church and so he needed help. And I think people that don't want to help want to go to church so they can get lost in the crowd but still feel like they went to church.

TA One of your jobs later on was counting the tithes. Now whenever I went to look into the tithing records, and the attendance records, there was … a lot of it ended up being lump summed into a ten-year pile so I didn't … I don't see any of the fluctuations … um and Pastor Baker’s computer was wiped.

AA Yes.

TA So as somebody that witnessed these things firsthand do you remember any fluctuations in tithing, or even with attendance for the children's ministry, because I mean obviously that's going to reflect the adults because they're going to bring their children with them. Do you remember any thing like any fluctuations in attendance or tithing?
AA For what part or just in general?

TA um Well there is in general but see whenever I was speaking to Joyce, she … she tried to pardon everything as; when the school was doing well, the church might not be doing as well, or the daycare was doing well, and the school wasn’t doing well. She was trying to say that all of the three different parts; when one was up one might be down, but they could cover each other, so that was the lump sum financial status. But I'm wanting to know more about the members and how like Y2K or nine eleven or the recession impacted giving or even if there's a situation beyond that that you remember … because you you might have had a holy crap moment when you're looking at it like why is this so high or why is so low. Is there anything that…you remember?

AA I do think that giving over the years, I mean you could break it down maybe English church and Spanish church. The English church definitely started giving less when things in the country happened. They give less, they hold on to their money because they're afraid. That there's a fear of the unknown so they want to be prepared. So, I'm gonna say that I definitely could see a difference in the giving with the English church. Out of fear is what I would call it because you are afraid. You don't know what's gonna happen, our country has been attacked in that such a strange thing for us you know. But at the same time their giving went down, but I feel like maybe their patriotism went up. Like a love for their country and I feel like they still wanted to come to church and attend church. But I just felt like maybe they were holding on to their money out of fear and jobs did change you know, and people were losing jobs for a while and and so that has to have an effect, you know, on the bottom line. Now I do know that the church, and the church, the school, and the daycare is one general account, but I do know that records were kept separately also. Like … we knew what the tithes were for any given Sunday and we knew. And I even broke it down with first service and second service. You know another thing that was happening in the country around the same time is all of a sudden, we went from having Sunday morning service, Sunday night service, and Wednesday service, to just a Sunday morning service and just Wednesday night, more focused on the children. So, a whole service, maybe even you know instead of a service having maybe just a class for the adults that were there. You know, that's less … some people would just give five or ten dollars at a time but over a month’s time that was several thousands of dollars so that went away as well. So as the country changed, and services started being less, there was nothing to make up for that absence. So that also was a drop in the tithing. Now I have always said it's better to have a hundred givers at a regular amount as opposed to one great big giver or … or two great big givers because you don't want to just count on one person, or two, because you don't know what's going to happen in their lives or they're gonna leave. And a lot of times that seems to be what happens in English church you know you get a couple of people they give big and then everybody else just gives the normal. In the Spanish church, a lot of givers you know I'm saying. A lot of people, now you may not … they would always put their money in envelopes, but for some reason they were never names to assign it to. But you could tell that they had more givers because I'm opening up a lot more envelopes as opposed to the English church who had less envelopes, more money. The second service had more envelopes and less money. That's how I knew that there were more givers in the Hispanic churches as opposed to the English. So, they would always give even if it hurts. Whereas Americans I think we tend to hold on one more when we’re afraid. Did that answer your question?

TA That was good. Let's see … is there anything specifically that you remember about Pastor Baker, or when I talk about when it comes to Pastor Baker as far as him as a leader of the church, or a leader in the community, is there anything that … is there anything you remember specifically that made you go “this guy is a good leader” or is it … if it's not which is fine do you remember any specific moments that might have impacted him personally that also would impact the church? Because I mean throughout our lives in general things happen and they'll impact the person going through it, but then also those around them.

AA Well personally I remember one time that made a difference for me and how I thought. I had actually an issue with another leader and it was so weird because it involved you and your sister … it was the youth group pastor and he kept doing things that I didn’t agree with. How I didn’t want to raise my children. For some reason it just kept on, like one thing after the other after the other. So, I remember Pastor talking to me, and he's like there's something about you and him, that you’re both are supposed to learn from each other. He said “But I don't know what it is but I'm willing to continue to walk down the same road with both of you until we can work it out.” He didn't take a side, he didn't say I was wrong, or I was right, or him. He said but there's something that you both are supposed to learn from each other. And it … we will …. until we learn the lesson were gonna continue to walk down the same path. He was, “But I'm willing to walk down the same path with both of you until you do, if you are. I think that meant something to me. It wasn't like you have to learn it and you just have to do it this way. Either you're supposed to be giving him something or he's going to give you something and if we can just keep pushing through, we're gonna learn and I think that meant something to me. That meant life right, wrong, or indifferent we're in it for the long haul. And I thought that that said a lot about his character. I saw him do that with everybody. I saw him, you know, people would be wrong or mean or whatever it was. He would say, “That’s when you have to love them through it.” Helped me kind of learn like I didn't have to say everything I know, and I didn't have to be right all the time. Just kinda let things happen, just it's gonna be okay in the end. You just have to stay the course and I think if you can say anything about him you could say that he stayed the course. The good times, the bad times, and the indifferent times and he was always a pastor. He gave, he sacrificed a lot. He, you know, when the church was really struggling financially, he got another job so they did have to pay for his insurance. He has a very sick wife and her insurance was the reason that our insurance as a whole as a church was so high. So instead of just asking the church to suck it up and pay for it, he went and got another job. So that they didn't have to do that. So, I just, you know, you saw him sacrifice over and over again and I think that that that speaks highly of him.

TA He walked the walk, and talked the talk.

AA Even when it was hard. I mean I saw him work three jobs one time. Just to not make the church have to struggle. And people don't know those things. People don't know what he did behind, no matter what he he didn't get raises. They didn't pay into his retirement so many things that they wanted, and I'm sure they wanted to do that it wasn't like they just said that to get him there, but they couldn’t, and the church was in that position to do that. And we all would … we were taking pay cuts and we were just doing all those things, but it didn't it didn't change how he pastored or loved people. It didn't make a difference, he still was Pastor, and people don't know the sacrifices so.

TA Well I think you're done with the interview and it was good, I do appreciate it.

AA If you need anything else you know where I am. Thank you

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